Forum Home > Battle Videos > Battle Video Archives
The whole you are a guest in hip-hop thing


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-26-2020, 03:46 AM   #1
Felicity Halsey
Certified vet
 
Felicity Halsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Felicity Halsey is not the worst person
The whole you are a guest in hip-hop thing

I'm sorry but in 1593 was there a black guy that went up to William Shakespeare and said hey I invented poetry last year you are a guest in this house? Let's be honest no one's saying that anybody does not have the right to make rap lyrics. White people didn't steal poetry from black people. So when someone like Nick Cannon says that Eminem is a guest in hip hop I'm like what the hell are you talking about. Dude is just jealous that white boy is actually spitting Dope lyrics and actually made a career off of it.
__________________
Real raps over everything.
Felicity Halsey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 04:11 AM   #2
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Perhaps guest in hip hop and guest in rap are different things. Lord Jamar got headlines for calling Eminem a guest, a label that Eminem embraced. I'm not surprised Nick Cannon would latch on to that too. That whole line of thinking is wack tho
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 04:44 AM   #3
My Kall
Registered User
 
My Kall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,509
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
My Kall is better than Grind Time AustraliaMy Kall is better than Grind Time Australia
Obviously anyone should be allowed to participate in Hip-Hop as an artist or listener. But probably 90-95% of all the greatest Hip-Hop has been created by African-Americans (srs). So not only did they invent the sonic and lyrical techniques in 80s/early-mid 90s, they also almost single-handedly cultivated Hip-Hop, experimented with Hip-Hop, took it in new and adventurous directions etc.

Because Eminem is arguably the most talented rapper to ever graduate to Hollywood tier celebrity status, people who aren't super knowledgable will understandly identify him as personification for the culture, therefore assume that whites collectively have made this overwhelming contribution to the culture, maybe more so than blacks, which is not accurate. Even though Whites, Hispanics, even Asians have each made phenomonal impacts on Hip-Hop, the quantity, not quality, of their contributions absolutely pale in comparison to the colossal number of phenominal contributions blacks have been responsible for. Black ownership and domination of Hip-Hop, at least historically, runs even deeper than a lot of people realize.
My Kall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 05:11 AM   #4
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kall View Post
Even though Whites, Hispanics, even Asians have each made phenomonal impacts on Hip-Hop, the quantity, not quality, of their contributions absolutely pale in comparison to the colossal number of phenominal contributions blacks have been responsible for.


Dead at the word choice here: pale in comparison
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 08:00 AM   #5
Emancee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,384
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Emancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Guest doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though, you can be honored as a guest, but with the understanding that you don't call the host a loser and shit all over the rug.
__________________
Autoloss list:
Go nuts/nutty like a type of nut; Michael Vick/John Wick/ dogs; St. Patrick's Day; gun/ sports star number; kill/ kilt; animal bars (Wings/ falcon, long nose/ elephant etc), Whatcha know about..., Asians/ cooking cats/ Chins; rebuttling your own clothing; being Bobby Rex...
Emancee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 11:18 AM   #6
Abstrakt
List-making Nerdbird
 
Abstrakt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,119
Mentioned: 422 Post(s)
Abstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emancee View Post
Guest doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though, you can be honored as a guest, but with the understanding that you don't call the host a loser and shit all over the rug.
Yeah, this is how i feel about it.

And i think the "guest in hip hop" thing is kinda related to our fucked up history.
__________________
GOAT

1. aye verb
2. loaded lux
3. pat stay
4. Calicoe
5. Ill will

Last edited by Abstrakt; 07-26-2020 at 11:29 AM.
Abstrakt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 12:04 PM   #7
Feral Linguist
otbva
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,510
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Feral Linguist is not the worst person
so hip-hop culture as it's popularly defined, right...? started with the idea of coping in an urban environment and living without upward mobility, right? graffiti, battling, breaking, emceeing, it makes sense. not sure how to say it in English but I'll try could we consider it "Patrimonial Heritage" of African Americans? like basically a landmark that is tied to that demographic? That's likely part of the issue, it isn't a monument. in other words it's intangible, so it's not as easy to stake a claim to something that isn't physical with a little plaque on it, where everybody agrees Oh ya that was built by so-and-so.

i just think Eminem is an outlier, and is as popular to like as to dislike. there aren't that many decent white rappers. African Americans "invented it" but some other folks "refined" it just in their own lives, and there are some African Americans who aren't a part of it, right? So how is it that any African American can just claim ownership retroactively and disrespect anybody else who actually contributed more as an individual?

Following @Emancee 's example here - is this the equivalent of someone buying a lot of nice ingredients and putting the work in to make a great meal at their house? But well. it's MY kitchen, so you can get out now

A bunch of white people aren't informed on hip-hop culture and think Eminem is it? Maybe try to educate them, how about a campaign to get whitey listening to Pun/DITC/WuTang/etc.? I know a lot of white folk who listen to them and plenty of other hip,hop much more than Eminem and well I am one of them.

Sounds like Nick Cannon is just livid. Did somebody tell him Bob Dylan was the first American rapper?

Last edited by Feral Linguist; 07-26-2020 at 12:12 PM.
Feral Linguist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 01:05 PM   #8
Abstrakt
List-making Nerdbird
 
Abstrakt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,119
Mentioned: 422 Post(s)
Abstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICEAbstrakt is NICE
i think one of the reasons eminem is largely accepted is because he grew up around a lot of black people in detroit, was part of a low income family and basically went rags to riches. a lot of hiphop is based off of struggle in the streets and eminem can relate to that.

he may still be a guest but at least he went through partly what other black rappers went through.
__________________
GOAT

1. aye verb
2. loaded lux
3. pat stay
4. Calicoe
5. Ill will
Abstrakt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 02:59 PM   #9
Feral Linguist
otbva
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,510
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Feral Linguist is not the worst person
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abstrakt View Post
i think one of the reasons eminem is largely accepted is because he grew up around a lot of black people in detroit, was part of a low income family and basically went rags to riches. a lot of hiphop is based off of struggle in the streets and eminem can relate to that.

he may still be a guest but at least he went through partly what other black rappers went through.
yeah that's the idea. I think that hip-hop is more about using inner strength to make the best out of a bad situation, hence the whole plethora of art that has come out of it. That makes sense, rather than "muh skin color". which is just beyond cheap and superficial, it's pathetic.

Basically it'd seem to me that fuckin Nick Cannon doesn't know what he's talking about
Feral Linguist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 05:45 PM   #10
RandallFlagg
Registered Loser
 
RandallFlagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: From parts unknown
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
RandallFlagg is better than Grind Time AustraliaRandallFlagg is better than Grind Time AustraliaRandallFlagg is better than Grind Time Australia
Thumbs up

Spoken like a true colonizing honkey.

You're forgetting that the thing that made Eminem marketable in the first place was because he was a guest in hip hop co signed by Dre. If it were a black dude that released SS lp and MM lp at that time they wouldn't have done much. Being a white rapper is normal at this point because of how gimmicky it was at that time.
RandallFlagg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:26 PM   #11
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Maybe the effect of Eminem's rise to fame was making rap music gimmicky. It's around the time when battle rap leagues started popping up. As the industry went mumble.. battle rap keeps lyricism alive.
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:28 PM   #12
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emancee View Post
Guest doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing though, you can be honored as a guest, but with the understanding that you don't call the host a loser and shit all over the rug.
This sounds reasonable. But isn't guest always a second class citizen?
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:30 PM   #13
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
Spoken like a true colonizing honkey.

You're forgetting that the thing that made Eminem marketable in the first place was because he was a guest in hip hop co signed by Dre. If it were a black dude that released SS lp and MM lp at that time they wouldn't have done much. Being a white rapper is normal at this point because of how gimmicky it was at that time.
Dre co-signs have helped black artists too
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:31 PM   #14
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feral Linguist View Post
Basically it'd seem to me that fuckin Nick Cannon doesn't know what he's talking about
Of course he doesn't. Nick Cannon is cut from the child actor cloth
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:43 PM   #15
Lizman
Registered User
 
Lizman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ireland
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Lizman has seen da-feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity Halsey View Post
I'm sorry but in 1593 was there a black guy that went up to William Shakespeare and said hey I invented poetry last year you are a guest in this house? Let's be honest no one's saying that anybody does not have the right to make rap lyrics. White people didn't steal poetry from black people. So when someone like Nick Cannon says that Eminem is a guest in hip hop I'm like what the hell are you talking about. Dude is just jealous that white boy is actually spitting Dope lyrics and actually made a career off of it.
Since I Don't Know You, I Don't Know Whether You Are Trolling.
As Such, I Am Refraining From Answering In Earnest.
Lizman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:47 PM   #16
Dear Diary
Rhetheric's like finally
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 3,175
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Dear Diary is better than Grind Time AustraliaDear Diary is better than Grind Time AustraliaDear Diary is better than Grind Time Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess View Post
Maybe the effect of Eminem's rise to fame was making rap music gimmicky. It's around the time when battle rap leagues started popping up. As the industry went mumble.. battle rap keeps lyricism alive.
does this imply battle rap is not gimmicky in any way?
__________________
Marinated Ventilator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dank Schrader View Post
id think if you are a virgin by choice, you have probably got the self respect and common sense to wash your butt crack every once in a while
Dear Diary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:51 PM   #17
Feral Linguist
otbva
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,510
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Feral Linguist is not the worst person
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
If it were a black dude that released SS lp and MM lp at that time they wouldn't have done much.
that's an idea, but we'll never know, so what weight does that hold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
Being a white rapper is normal at this point because of how gimmicky it was at that time.
weren't the Beastie Boys sort of big back in the day too though? either way, normal shnormal,

and Eminem is part of D12 and his fame helped a bunch of those cats come up, or at least get more exposure - but he's the only white one in the group, am I wrong? So how's it that he could be a 'guest' when he's likely done more for hip-hop culture than many black artists?

Dre signed him probably more for talent than as a gimmick. but I could be wrong about that.

In any case I'd like to see someone try to make a case for Nick Cannon having done more for hip-hop
Feral Linguist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:52 PM   #18
Lizman
Registered User
 
Lizman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ireland
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Lizman has seen da-feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abstrakt View Post
Yeah, this is how i feel about it.

And i think the "guest in hip hop" thing is kinda related to our fucked up history.
If You Are Talking About Slavery Then It Would Be An Excellent Narrative To Flip This Argument Around.
Lizman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:57 PM   #19
Lizman
Registered User
 
Lizman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ireland
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Lizman has seen da-feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
Spoken like a true colonizing honkey.
If it were a black dude that released SS lp and MM lp at that time they wouldn't have done much.
You Think A Black Dude Talking About Killing His Wife In A Song Wouldnt Have Done Much?
Lizman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:57 PM   #20
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dear Diary View Post
does this imply battle rap is not gimmicky in any way?
Sure, battle rap can be gimmicky. There things like compliment battles ect. But on a whole, battle rap is more about lyricism than mainstream rap music.
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 06:59 PM   #21
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizman View Post
If You Are Talking About Slavery Then It Would Be An Excellent Narrative To Flip This Argument Around.
This is what I was getting at too.
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2020, 08:13 PM   #22
StankDaddy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 563
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
StankDaddy User wishes battle rap was all still freestyled
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kall View Post
So not only did they invent the sonic and lyrical techniques in 80s/early-mid 90s, they also almost single-handedly cultivated Hip-Hop, experimented with Hip-Hop, took it in new and adventurous directions etc.
Bold: Bob Dylan begs to differ. Subterranean Homesick Blues, 1964.

Nonbold: Spot on.
StankDaddy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 12:26 AM   #23
Emancee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,384
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Emancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feral Linguist View Post
that's an idea, but we'll never know, so what weight does that hold?

weren't the Beastie Boys sort of big back in the day too though? either way, normal shnormal
People massively underrate just how huge the Beasties were. They are in the top ten biggest selling rappers of all time! They are slightly more interesting as it was more of an 'existing in a bunch of scenes at once' thing rather than a white rapper thing that made them become successful.

As for the MMLP, we'll never know. There were a lot of emo kids in the 90s who could relate to Eminem's mixture of whining about relationships and homicidal fantasies. Was part of that the fact that Eminem looked and sounded like them is hard to say as Eminem's style was very different from the sound that was happening in the black communities at that time. Sometimes just having a different style and viewpoint can be enough to propel you to stardom.
__________________
Autoloss list:
Go nuts/nutty like a type of nut; Michael Vick/John Wick/ dogs; St. Patrick's Day; gun/ sports star number; kill/ kilt; animal bars (Wings/ falcon, long nose/ elephant etc), Whatcha know about..., Asians/ cooking cats/ Chins; rebuttling your own clothing; being Bobby Rex...
Emancee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 04:08 AM   #24
Ass Napkin Ed
NEGRO NAZI
 
Ass Napkin Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: 2 LETTER MAN
Posts: 8,226
Mentioned: 523 Post(s)
Ass Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local league
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emancee View Post
People massively underrate just how huge the Beasties were. They are in the top ten biggest selling rappers of all time! They are slightly more interesting as it was more of an 'existing in a bunch of scenes at once' thing rather than a white rapper thing that made them become successful.

As for the MMLP, we'll never know. There were a lot of emo kids in the 90s who could relate to Eminem's mixture of whining about relationships and homicidal fantasies. Was part of that the fact that Eminem looked and sounded like them is hard to say as Eminem's style was very different from the sound that was happening in the black communities at that time. Sometimes just having a different style and viewpoint can be enough to propel you to stardom.
First off - Best thread in a long time

Rap in itself, is about timing. When LL, Run-DMC and all the blackys were killing shit and introducing hip hop like Turbo and Ozone did to Kelly, it still
left a void. The Jewish whites aka the Beastie Boys were the perfect merge at the right time for White America to learn about the "dark arts" and understand blackys music. Fast Forward to Marshall, the Germanic Jew, who for some reason never wanted to battle Ryan (Royce) when he was slaying the lame Detroit rappers (lickety, mountainclimbaz aka freeworld etc) at the Shelter. Royce raps exactly like Em. But Royce isn't marketable like Shady. Em's success is his timing. Pac, Big, No more Everlast, etc. It was a void. Find the void in anything and fill it - you Charlie Sheen winning
__________________
I STILL HAVE TIME FOR THE BULLSHIT

I am Malcolm ED
By ANE Means Necessary
Ass Napkin Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 02:18 PM   #25
Felicity Halsey
Certified vet
 
Felicity Halsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Felicity Halsey is not the worst person
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizman View Post
Since I Don't Know You, I Don't Know Whether You Are Trolling.
As Such, I Am Refraining From Answering In Earnest.
I'm lil ILL we battled before. I'm a tranny now
__________________
Real raps over everything.
Felicity Halsey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 09:17 PM   #26
Lizman
Registered User
 
Lizman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ireland
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Lizman has seen da-feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity Halsey View Post
I'm lil ILL we battled before. I'm a tranny now
We Never Actually Ended Up Battling.
And The Fact That You Are Lil Ill Significantly Decreases My Trust Levels
Lizman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2020, 09:19 PM   #27
Lizman
Registered User
 
Lizman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ireland
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Lizman has seen da-feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ass Napkin Ed View Post
First off - Best thread in a long time

Rap in itself, is about timing. When LL, Run-DMC and all the blackys were killing shit and introducing hip hop like Turbo and Ozone did to Kelly, it still
left a void. The Jewish whites aka the Beastie Boys were the perfect merge at the right time for White America to learn about the "dark arts" and understand blackys music. Fast Forward to Marshall, the Germanic Jew, who for some reason never wanted to battle Ryan (Royce) when he was slaying the lame Detroit rappers (lickety, mountainclimbaz aka freeworld etc) at the Shelter. Royce raps exactly like Em. But Royce isn't marketable like Shady. Em's success is his timing. Pac, Big, No more Everlast, etc. It was a void. Find the void in anything and fill it - you Charlie Sheen winning
Royce Doesnt Rap Like Eminem Whatsoever
Lizman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 02:15 AM   #28
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizman View Post
Royce Doesnt Rap Like Eminem Whatsoever
Bad meets Evil

Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 04:38 AM   #29
My Kall
Registered User
 
My Kall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,509
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
My Kall is better than Grind Time AustraliaMy Kall is better than Grind Time Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizman View Post
Royce Doesnt Rap Like Eminem Whatsoever
Nah they belong in the same category, if you like Eminem you'll like Royce, same for D12 (RIP Proof). Eminem actually took loads of inspiration from black horrocore rappers like Esham, NATAS (RIP TNT) Ganksta NIP, but also white horrocore rappers like Insane Clown Posse and Twiztid to be fair. They were the original rappers to explore themes like satan, voodoo, vampires, paranoia, psychosis, rage etc. Prime 1997-2001 Eminem incorprated all of their ideas but combined them with sophisticated rhyme patterns and polished and rapid flows and cadences.
My Kall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 05:32 AM   #30
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kall View Post
Nah they belong in the same category, if you like Eminem you'll like Royce, same for D12 (RIP Proof). Eminem actually took loads of inspiration from black horrocore rappers like Esham, NATAS (RIP TNT) Ganksta NIP, but also white horrocore rappers like Insane Clown Posse and Twiztid to be fair. They were the original rappers to explore themes like satan, voodoo, vampires, paranoia, psychosis, rage etc. Prime 1997-2001 Eminem incorprated all of their ideas but combined them with sophisticated rhyme patterns and polished and rapid flows and cadences.
Reading this comment made me look for a book on Detroit Hip Hop. Instead I found this doc on Amazon Prime The Untold story of Detroit Hip Hop. Have you seen that?
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 05:38 AM   #31
Emancee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,384
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Emancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kall View Post
Nah they belong in the same category, if you like Eminem you'll like Royce, same for D12 (RIP Proof). Eminem actually took loads of inspiration from black horrocore rappers like Esham, NATAS (RIP TNT) Ganksta NIP.
I agree with Ganksta NIP for sure and One Day-era Esham. I also see a lot of Geto Boys, especially Bushwick Bill, and Gravediggaz (1-800 Suicide could be an Eminem track) in there too.

As for direct influences, a helping of Proof mixed with a large helping of Royce and a very, very little bit of Bizarre (Although Bizarre remains a strong WOAT contender) and you have Eminem. Surprised that anyone can't hear a strong Royce influence in Eminem and vice versa. It doesn't take away from either rapper as taking the same foundations and making your own thing out of it is pretty much what rap is all about.

Also for the record, love Royce and Slim, but D12 except for big Proof all sucked.
__________________
Autoloss list:
Go nuts/nutty like a type of nut; Michael Vick/John Wick/ dogs; St. Patrick's Day; gun/ sports star number; kill/ kilt; animal bars (Wings/ falcon, long nose/ elephant etc), Whatcha know about..., Asians/ cooking cats/ Chins; rebuttling your own clothing; being Bobby Rex...

Last edited by Emancee; 07-28-2020 at 05:46 AM.
Emancee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 09:29 AM   #32
My Kall
Registered User
 
My Kall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 3,509
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
My Kall is better than Grind Time AustraliaMy Kall is better than Grind Time Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emancee View Post
I agree with Ganksta NIP for sure and One Day-era Esham. I also see a lot of Geto Boys, especially Bushwick Bill, and Gravediggaz (1-800 Suicide could be an Eminem track) in there too.

As for direct influences, a helping of Proof mixed with a large helping of Royce and a very, very little bit of Bizarre (Although Bizarre remains a strong WOAT contender) and you have Eminem. Surprised that anyone can't hear a strong Royce influence in Eminem and vice versa. It doesn't take away from either rapper as taking the same foundations and making your own thing out of it is pretty much what rap is all about.

Also for the record, love Royce and Slim, but D12 except for big Proof all sucked.
Yeah I was gonna mention Geto Boys (RIP Bushwick Bill), it's just they weren't as cartoonish and tongue in cheek as Eminem and the other guys I mentioned, that's probably why I overlooked them, but they're a very seminal group. Gravediggaz (RIP Poetic) did horrorcore, but they didn't emerge until 1994, by which time horrocore had already come to fruition and it was commonplace. The guys I mentioned all emerged in 1989-1993. RZA and Prince Paul were obviously involved in other Hip-Hop inventions, but they didn't invent horrorcore.
My Kall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 12:04 PM   #33
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emancee View Post
I agree with Ganksta NIP for sure and One Day-era Esham. I also see a lot of Geto Boys, especially Bushwick Bill, and Gravediggaz (1-800 Suicide could be an Eminem track) in there too.

As for direct influences, a helping of Proof mixed with a large helping of Royce and a very, very little bit of Bizarre (Although Bizarre remains a strong WOAT contender) and you have Eminem. Surprised that anyone can't hear a strong Royce influence in Eminem and vice versa. It doesn't take away from either rapper as taking the same foundations and making your own thing out of it is pretty much what rap is all about.

Also for the record, love Royce and Slim, but D12 except for big Proof all sucked.
All this talk about Detroit has me thinking of most influential cities in Hip-Hop. Do you have a top 5?

Off the dome...

New York
Los Angeles
Philadelphia
Detroit
Atlanta
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 01:12 PM   #34
Emancee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,384
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Emancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess View Post
All this talk about Detroit has me thinking of most influential cities in Hip-Hop. Do you have a top 5?

Off the dome...

New York
Los Angeles
Philadelphia
Detroit
Atlanta
Luckily it's pretty easy because the first three are no-brainers:
NY, Los Angeles and Philly ftw.

I think Oakland has probably been more influential than Detroit, although that is very debatable. It's a question of Kanye vs. Slim, Royce vs. E-40, Esham vs. Too Short etc.

I'd probably agree on Atlanta for the other spot with Chicago being the only other possible contender. Although as most people on this forum could probably guess, I am a huge fan of Houston's scene.
__________________
Autoloss list:
Go nuts/nutty like a type of nut; Michael Vick/John Wick/ dogs; St. Patrick's Day; gun/ sports star number; kill/ kilt; animal bars (Wings/ falcon, long nose/ elephant etc), Whatcha know about..., Asians/ cooking cats/ Chins; rebuttling your own clothing; being Bobby Rex...
Emancee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 01:54 PM   #35
Emancee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,384
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Emancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time AntarcticaEmancee is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kall View Post
Yeah I was gonna mention Geto Boys (RIP Bushwick Bill), it's just they weren't as cartoonish and tongue in cheek as Eminem and the other guys I mentioned, that's probably why I overlooked them
Bushwick could occasionally have that sort of cartoonish glee. The only problem was that the Geto Boys were shock rappers and so were sometimes over the top to the point of being unlistenable. Some of their material has a similar feeling though like My Mind Playing Tricks, Damn It Feel Good, Who's the Biggest, etc.
__________________
Autoloss list:
Go nuts/nutty like a type of nut; Michael Vick/John Wick/ dogs; St. Patrick's Day; gun/ sports star number; kill/ kilt; animal bars (Wings/ falcon, long nose/ elephant etc), Whatcha know about..., Asians/ cooking cats/ Chins; rebuttling your own clothing; being Bobby Rex...

Last edited by Emancee; 07-28-2020 at 01:57 PM.
Emancee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 05:14 PM   #36
Ass Napkin Ed
NEGRO NAZI
 
Ass Napkin Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: 2 LETTER MAN
Posts: 8,226
Mentioned: 523 Post(s)
Ass Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local league
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feral Linguist View Post
so hip-hop culture as it's popularly defined, right...? started with the idea of coping in an urban environment and living without upward mobility, right? graffiti, battling, breaking, emceeing, it makes sense. not sure how to say it in English but I'll try could we consider it "Patrimonial Heritage" of African Americans? like basically a landmark that is tied to that demographic? That's likely part of the issue, it isn't a monument. in other words it's intangible, so it's not as easy to stake a claim to something that isn't physical with a little plaque on it, where everybody agrees Oh ya that was built by so-and-so.

i just think Eminem is an outlier, and is as popular to like as to dislike. there aren't that many decent white rappers. African Americans "invented it" but some other folks "refined" it just in their own lives, and there are some African Americans who aren't a part of it, right? So how is it that any African American can just claim ownership retroactively and disrespect anybody else who actually contributed more as an individual?

Following @Emancee 's example here - is this the equivalent of someone buying a lot of nice ingredients and putting the work in to make a great meal at their house? But well. it's MY kitchen, so you can get out now

A bunch of white people aren't informed on hip-hop culture and think Eminem is it? Maybe try to educate them, how about a campaign to get whitey listening to Pun/DITC/WuTang/etc.? I know a lot of white folk who listen to them and plenty of other hip,hop much more than Eminem and well I am one of them.

Sounds like Nick Cannon is just livid. Did somebody tell him Bob Dylan was the first American rapper?

This guy gets it. May be my new favorite poster here
Gaga voice: Negro Negro Naziiiii!
__________________
I STILL HAVE TIME FOR THE BULLSHIT

I am Malcolm ED
By ANE Means Necessary
Ass Napkin Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 05:19 PM   #37
Ass Napkin Ed
NEGRO NAZI
 
Ass Napkin Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: 2 LETTER MAN
Posts: 8,226
Mentioned: 523 Post(s)
Ass Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local leagueAss Napkin Ed is a vet in their local league
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizman View Post
Royce Doesnt Rap Like Eminem Whatsoever
Eminem breakdown: Cage, Esham, Pacewon/Redman and Proof = greatness

The same could be said about any great

Prince breakdown: James Brown, Hendrix, Marvin Gaye etc
__________________
I STILL HAVE TIME FOR THE BULLSHIT

I am Malcolm ED
By ANE Means Necessary
Ass Napkin Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 06:15 PM   #38
Lizman
Registered User
 
Lizman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ireland
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Lizman has seen da-feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess View Post
Not The Same.
Not To Mention That It's Slim Shady, Not Eminem.
Lizman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 06:17 PM   #39
Lizman
Registered User
 
Lizman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ireland
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Lizman has seen da-feet
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kall View Post
Nah they belong in the same category, if you like Eminem you'll like Royce, same for D12 (RIP Proof). Eminem actually took loads of inspiration from black horrocore rappers like Esham, NATAS (RIP TNT) Ganksta NIP, but also white horrocore rappers like Insane Clown Posse and Twiztid to be fair. They were the original rappers to explore themes like satan, voodoo, vampires, paranoia, psychosis, rage etc. Prime 1997-2001 Eminem incorprated all of their ideas but combined them with sophisticated rhyme patterns and polished and rapid flows and cadences.

I Like Newer Royce. i Wasn't A Royce Fan Back When I Listened To Eminem.
And I Absolutely Do Not Like 99% Of The Content Of The Rest Of D12.
Lizman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2020, 10:13 PM   #40
Profess
I'm Lovin' It
 
Profess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,852
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Profess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time AntarcticaProfess is better than Grind Time Antarctica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizman View Post
Not The Same.
Not To Mention That It's Slim Shady, Not Eminem.
Are you saying Eminem raps different than his alter-ego Slim Shady?

Maybe you're right, I haven't listened to Eminem closely for about 15 years. I really like The Marshal Mathers LP
Profess is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
nick cannon


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

 
Forum Stats
Members: 5,606
Threads: 28,036
Posts: 739,370
Total Online: 1778

Newest Member: DethStryque The Invincibl

Latest Threads
- by iamHBY
- by Emancee
- by iamHBY
- by Emancee
- by 6000GP
- by Emancee
- by Emancee
- by Emancee
- by iamHBY
- by iamHBY



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:00 PM.